The Spiro Podcast: Managing your Real Estate Photography & Videography Business

Owner Spotlight: Pete Stagl & Servant 360

This week we talk with Pete Stagl, owner of Servant 360 for the continuation of the Spiro Podcast Owner Spotlight Series.  Pete share's about his company, but dives into a timely topic for all of us:  how to market your Real Estate Media company through a recession.  
0:00-0:48 Preview
0:49-6:27 Intro
6:28-7:36 Intro to Pete and Servant 360
7:37-12:38 Pete’s perspective on the current market and economy
12:39-13:27 Will some real estate media companies fold?
Companies have to be prepared and continue to marketing their business
13:28-15:15 What to say to a Realtor who can’t get buyers into the home
Real estate media companies can shine when houses do not sell as quickly
Agents need media to stand out
This is the time to educate clients on what you offer 
15:16-22:34 How can real estate photographers market themselves and survive the recession?
Some of the biggest, most profitable businesses started during recessions
If you eliminate your marketing, who will know that you’re still in business?
Agents are similar to photographers - they are islands and mainly compete with each other
Come alongside your clients and offer to help; look at it as serving them and helping them generate more business
Keep your name at the forefront during difficult times
Agents think about real estate photography about once a month
22:35-32:02 What is a first step in marketing?
Connect with potential clients through social media, email, calls
Make sure they know you’re still in business
Offer as many services as possible so you can serve an advisory role to your clients
They are already looking for new ways to market; if you don’t offer these services, they will find a company that does - be a one-stop shop
Having an efficient ordering and delivery system (such as Spiro) walks clients through what they need and helps you upsell
If an agent is really looking to survive the recession, they will want more than photos
It’s hard to increase your average order value if you only do photos
A Realtor is marketing themselves to their clients through their past listings; some clients decide on their agent based on the media for their past listings
Put yourself in your client’s shoes and understand what they’re trying to solve
Spiro’s ability to show past listings is a sales tool for prospective clients
An agent has to show that they will do more
32:03-37:46 
Stay positive and avoid fear-based news
Focus on opportunities over challenges; focus on what you can control
Surround yourself with the people who build you up
Craig’s book recommendation: Winning the War in Your Mind by Craig Groeschel
37:47-43:15 How should businesses prepare to absorb new clients?
Those who focus on fear will be more likely to give up
Some competitors will close; some may offer clients to you
Pete created a coupon code for the clients he received from a closing competitor
Their use of the code put them in his system
43:16-47:20 Contact Pete at pete@servant360nm.com or follow him on social media at @servant360  
Implement something from this podcast today
Find a marketing group
Start talking to your agents
Find an accountability partner, such as Todd (hello@spiro.media) to motivate and remind you to accomplish your goals
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.media
Spiro on Instagram:  @spiro.media
Spiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.

Owner Spotlight Series: Tashara Milligan & Open Peek Media

We're starting a new series on the Spiro Podcast.  It's the Owner Spotlight Series!  Each episode in this series we will spotlight a Real Estate Photography Business owner and their business, both large and small businesses.  There are some incredible stories out there of how these business owners started their businesses, and they have valuable insight and wisdom to share with you!
 
In this first Owner Spotlight Series episode, we'd like to introduce you to Tashara Milligan, owner of Open Peek Media in North Carolina!
 
Show Summary Notes:
0:00-0:31 Preview
0:32-2:53 Intro
2:54-6:42  Introduction of Tashara Milligan - Owner of Open Peek Media
How Spiro & Open Peek Media connected - Beta Testing Software
Tashara worked in the Healtchare Industry during COVID-19. Needed to do something different
Found a Real Estate Photography Class online and signed up
Finished class, bought equipment, did practice shoots
Opened Open Peek Media in July 2020
6:43-8:12 Current Business Situation for Open Peek Media
Solo photographer, shooting around 250 listings per year
Considers herself a Boutique Real Estate Photographer, likes relationships she’s been able to build and manage with her clients by staying smaller
Has 3 kids, so to allow time for family they pace themselves. Her husband has joined her to help with Admin work and some of their commercial work
8:12-15:18  What role do strategic relationships play in Open Peek Media’s business? What is a strategic relationship?
At start of business, she was hyperfocused on just real estate agents to build customer base
Discovered that the more business owners she met and built relationships with and served, the less work she had to do in marketing
Joined Women’s Business Networking Group - focus was on strategic network referrals
She didn’t consider herself a networker, but tried
She connected with other business people that were connected to Realtors
Because of these relationships, her business name was mentioned in rooms she wasn’t present in
Web Design and SEO companies have been a very valuable relationships
By connecting with related industry businesses, you brand yourself as an industry expert
15:19-18:36  If you’re hesitant to reach out to other business owners in related businesses, what should you say or do to make those connections?
Find events you can attend where you can just meet people.  Repeat this, and you’ll start seeing the same people
Do a follow up call/contact after you’ve met people in person, makes phone call easier once you’ve met someone
Use your photography/media to get out in the community and serve at events/meetings to get to know people
Do work in community and non-profit organizations - those in that field will get to know you and refer
18:37-21:48  What advice do you give to a business owner that may be more introverted?
Think about the outcome of where you want to be, and what you want to get out of every interaction
Think about what environments are serving you
Know that the effort to connect with others will be worth it
There are times you don’t want to go to an event as an introvert, but it’s always with it due to identifying where you want to end up in life
21:49-24:46  Selling versus Serving
Serving others well will build your business more effectively than selling someone.
Serving takes you farther - go beyond even just a little bit what’s expected
Serving results in appreciation
Staying small has allowed her to serve which fulfills her
24:47-25:42  What plans do you have for 2023?
Working on doing more virtual tours
25:43- Closing
Set goals and enjoy what you’re doing
Contact Tashara/Open Peek Media at:  http://openpeekmedia.com, tjmilligan@openpeekmedia.com, and Instagram:  @OpenPeekMedia
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.media
Spiro on Instagram:  @spiro.media
Spiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.
 
 

How to Increase Your Average Sale Price

The market is changing.  Realtors are having a harder time getting listings, which can mean there are fewer listings to photograph.  So how can we make more per shoot to make up for potentially fewer appointments.  Or, alternatively, maybe you have you have all the appointments you want to shoot, but you need to make more.  How do we increase our Average Sale Price per real estate photography appointment?  Todd, Craig, and VP of Sales at WOW Video Tours, Steve Musser discuss how you can maximize every appointment.
 
Show Summary Notes:
0:00-0:32 Preview
0:33-4:15 Intro
4:16-7:28 What if I want to increase the value of each job instead of my number of shoots?
You can either cut costs or seek to serve your client better
Cutting costs involves trimming how much you’re spending to produce and deliver your product(s)
Seeking to serve your client better involves maximizing what each client gets during their shoot- try to move beyond your base products and shoot other products since you’re already at the shoot
Make sure the client has everything they need to market their property and help them grow their business
Sales can be intimidating, but you’re serving the client and helping them achieve their goals instead of pushing useless products on them
7:29-10:33 How do I learn and practice services outside photography?
Lots of resources are available for learning how to shoot video or fly a drone 
You will create your own system as your business grows
Email us for specific resources
10:34-13:50 How can photographers help their clients understand why they would want other products?
Serve clients instead of selling to them
Make sure they know what you offer; let the public know you offer services beyond photography
Cater your services to what your clientele wants; get to know them and what they’re happy with and what they want
Wow follows a consultative selling process and helps clients determine what they need product-wise to market key features of each listing
Consider how you can help them reach larger goals, such as branding to help them build their business
13:51-18:46 What has Wow’s experience been with scaling their average sale price (ASP)?
Wow did not pay attention to ASP until recent years
Wow increased around $15 per shoot over the last year ($15/shoot x 12,000 shoots/year = $180,000 increase since previous year)
The main factor was the sales team’s relationships with agents 
Ask Steve’s question, “Tell me about the features of this property”, and they will give you information that you can use to learn how they can market better
Yearly price adjustments can fall through the cracks, but they can be a big factor in increasing ASP
If you don’t have a sales team, that’s okay- build relationships with clients on your own!
Don’t assume clients already know about your products
You will retain more clients with more products because they will not have to outsource
Every time a client uses another company, you risk losing that client because the other company becomes a one-stop shop
18:47-20:17 What kind of question(s) can I ask agents to get them thinking about branding products?
“Have you ever thought about putting your face in your video?”- Often, they have and didn’t know that was an option
“What are you doing to keep your brand in front of everybody?”- Having that conversation can help you determine where they are in building their brand and follow them through the process of realizing they need to brand themselves
If you have those conversations with them, they will come to you when they decide to build their branding
The agents who have worked with Wow to build their brand are winning more business now when homes are not selling as fast
20:18-24:06 To summarize:
We have to educate ourselves about what products agents need and want
Implement those products and offer them to increase ASP
Ask clients the right questions to get them thinking and to know what they want
“What do you want to see? Is there something you’ve seen that you want to have?”- If you get the same answers over and over again, there is a need and market for that product
23:38-26:52 For someone who wants everybody to be happy and doesn’t enjoy selling, how do you pivot from a no?
No’s will happen, so brace yourself
Approach the situation as a consultant- how can you make them better? 
If they know you are trying to help them in the long run, they won’t be afraid to answer your call
Answer their no with understanding and follow up consistently so they know you’ll be available when they need the service you’re offering
Take the no with grace and stay consistent
26:53-31:22 Don’t overthink it
Nobody wants to be told no; take it as a “No, not today”
Do something different to show that you care about them and it will pay off
Take the servant mentality over the salesperson mentality
People appreciate knowing you’re there to help them grow their business
Analyze your online ordering system to see if it can help you upsell; if it won’t, find a system that will (Spiro helps you easily create bundles and automatic upsells for clients who order online)
Clients will repay your helpfulness by using you to help them grow
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.media
Spiro on Instagram:  @spiro.media
Spiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.

Pricing & Packaging Your Real Estate Photography & Videography

One of the most often asked questions we see is "How should I price my real estate photography?" Closely related to that is: "How do I package my services?"  In this episode of the Spiro Podcast, we tackle both of those questions!
Show Summary:
0:00-3:52 Intro 
3:53-14:35 Should I package by the number of photos I deliver or by the home's square footage?
Keep it simple
You know what you offer and what your packages mean; your Realtors don’t
Put yourself in their shoes- they are busy and want easy marketing
What do they need? What do they value?
Schedule coffee meetings to connect with Realtors and find out what they need
Brokerage meetings can also be helpful
Price and package based on what your client needs, not based on your competition
Wow has found that Realtors classify listings by average, above-average, and below-average and will want to market accordingly
They will want to see packages based on how they think- for example, “Luxury”, “Premiere”, or “Gold” for their above-average listings
They may be limited by how many photos they can post on the MLS, but they may want to use extra photos for other purposes
Shooting by number of photos is also more difficult
14:36-23:18 How do I determine package pricing and discounts?
Discounting can be a slippery slope- decide what your company’s mission is (to be the cheapest, best, most efficient, or something else)
Discount cautiously
Discounting may get you business in the beginning, but the Realtors who want the cheapest products are also likely to be the ones who complain the most and expect favors
Todd recommends reading The Pumpkin Plan, a book by Mike Michalowicz
You are selling to a salesperson who is used to negotiating- expect them to ask for discounts and sell them your value; show why you are worth what you charge and do not waver
Realtors see photography as a commodity and will seek the cheapest photography they can find, but you are their marketing consultant and represent them to their clients; when they see you that way, they will pay you to help them build their brand 
Remind agents they will make money from you because you will help them grow
Sometimes you have to fire your clients
Set clear expectations with discounts- let them know it is a one-time discount, not the standard price
Do not feel bad for giving them good value in your services and products
23:19-28:31 Times Wow will discount
Clients in Wow’s social media management program receive a discount on social media video products; this is a win-win because add-ons have a higher profit margin for Wow and it benefits their marketing when the social media team posts the videos
Wow generally discounts on brokerage plans
Craig discounted based on the number of memberships (the client pays a fee for access to discounted pricing) a brokerage signed up for or referrals from clients and brokerages
Most companies have moved away from memberships; it can be beneficial in keeping clients’ business
28:32-32:18 What about offering mini-packages?
Make decisions based on metrics
Are you trying to entice new clients to order a full package from you? Or are you booked already and would have to trade a full shoot for a mini-shoot? Do you have a loyal VIP who needs one every once in awhile? Will you be able to use these to target a different market, such as builders?
32:19-35:48 How do you price and package? Let us know in the comments or by emailing us!
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.media
Spiro on Instagram:  @spiro.media
Spiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.

How to Hire and Keep Photographers & Videographers

Like almost any industry right now, finding qualified contractor and employee photographers & videographers to help grow your business is a challenge.  Todd & Craig speak with Ryan Lieurance, VP of Training at WOW Video Tours to discuss how to not just find, but also retain photographers and videographers that can help you grow your real estate photography business.  
Show Summary Notes:
0:00-4:16 Intro 
4:17-5:47 Ryan’s experience as both a photographer and VP of Training
5:48-7:04 Challenges WOW has faced
Picking the right person out of many good candidates
Finding qualified people to hire out of a few candidates
Don’t settle for someone who’s "okay"
7:05-09:54 Where do you start in looking for candidates?
WOW uses Indeed.com 
Facebook groups can be a good resource
09:55-11:49 How do I use Indeed.com?
Create an account
They have a simple form to use
Email hello@spiro.media for the form WOW uses
11:50-14:23 What are applicants looking for in the job?
Most people are looking for consistent work
Consistency is not guaranteed in the real estate media business
Communication and expectations - be transparent and communicate exactly what the position is to build trust
14:24-17:51 How important is a good culture to employee retention?
Culture is everything
Treat people how you want to be treated
Anyone wants to know they have people behind them who care about them
Connect with your photographers and employees on a human level
17:52-23:15 How can business owners show that they care?
Be available
Check in with them, whether over the phone or in person, and find out how can you make their life better or easier
Let them know you appreciate them
Visit them at appointments if you can
The little things go a long way - don’t underestimate the value of the small things
Be deliberate
We communicate and receive love and appreciation in different ways, or love languages - discover what makes different team members feel appreciated, write it down, and use it
23:16-26:32 What is a 1099?
A 1099 contractor is paid per job
The company and contractor sign a contract of compensation
A W2 employee is paid hourly
As a business owner, decide what works best for you and make sure you talk to an attorney so you can treat your hires legally - it is worth the cost
You owe it to your company and employees to do it right
It varies by state
26:33-29:11 Who do I hire?
Hire for the quality of the person over the person’s experience
You can teach someone to use a camera; you can’t always teach someone great attitude, character, and personality
29:12-31:19 Reach Ryan at ryan@wowvideotours.com 
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.media
Spiro on Instagram:  @spiro.media
Spiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.

Bookkeeping & Finances in Your Real Estate Marketing Business

It may not be the most glamorous topic in the world, but let's face it: staying on top of our accounting and having at least a basic understanding of our numbers, balances, reconciliation and the like is critical to running a successful real estate photography and videography business.  Accounting may not be your favorite topic (but maybe it is), but knowing the basics of running your books is important.  WOW Video Tours General Manager Derek Mayer joins Todd & Craig to talk about basic, solid accounting principles to help you get your business started, and to keep it running smoothly.  
0:00-0:52 Preview
0:53-7:21 Intro
7:22-11:15 Why to not let accounting fall to the back burner
Need to prioritize accounting to know whether you are making money
Figure out whether you want to be the one to do it or find someone to do the numbers- Upwork, go local, get two or three quotes and clearly define what they will do for you
11:16-12:52 Generally costs $200-$400/month for a company shooting 300-2000 shoots/year
12:53-17:05 Business owners should have a basic understanding of accounting, even if they outsource
For those who want to do it themselves, it’s not that complicated
Take advantage of any resource you can find- YouTube has tons of videos, Google can help
Lots of software is available- QuickBooks (Derek’s recommendation, ~ $50/month), FreshBooks (~ $30/month), Xero (~ $35/month, bigger learning curve), Wave Accounting (free)
Try a variety to find what you like
17:06-18:52 What else does a photographer need to think about?
Get a business bank account and a debit or credit card for that account
Keep business and personal accounts separate- makes taxes easier
Software will help you import your transactions
Pick a payment provider- Derek recommends Authorize.net (no longer supported by Xero), Stripe and Square are also good
18:53-24:34 Basic reconciling
Reconciling is making sure every dollar is accounted for
Easiest way to know your numbers are correct
Whatever software you use, learn to reconcile, even if you have to pay someone to teach you
Easy to lose money when not reconciling
Don’t assume the bank is always right; they make mistakes, too
24:35-28:03 Find your system and lay a foundation
Sometimes you have to spend money to make money; you may need to hire someone to do your accounting 
If you don’t focus on the numbers, things will slip by
One last tip from Derek: Have fun! Learn about your business and go make money.
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. Be sure to follow us on Social Media:
Spiro on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/spiro.mediaSpiro on Instagram:  @spiro.mediaSpiro on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/spiro-media
You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.

Copyright/Licensing Questions & Issues - Adam Taylor

One of the most common questions real estate photographers ask is about copyright and licensing of their photos.  Who owns the rights to the photos?  Do they need to be licensed?  What happens if a listing changes hands and the new Realtor wants the photos the first Realtor paid for? Can the photographer use their own photos in other applications?  Our special guest, Adam Taylor joins Todd & Craig this week to tackle these questions and give you some creative ideas on what licensing your photos can do for your business.
Check out Adam's Website at: https://adamtaylorphotos.com/
For Adam's Licensing Educational Resources, visit: https://adamtaylorphotos.com/education/
 
Show Summary Notes:
0:00-0:57 Sneak peek 
0:58-2:55 Intro
2:56-4:04 Why copyright and licensing can feel scary
4:05-9:57 Adam’s story 
9:58-13:47 Intellectual property
Your photos are not a tangible goods or a service; they are intellectual property 
Licensing is selling the rights to use intellectual property
Music as an example- you have to buy the right to use it in a monetized YouTube video or commercial
13:48-15:39 Licensing makes sure you, as the photographer, get paid
When you take a photo, you have the copyright to that photo and must give others the right to use it
Working with an attorney is helpful
Know how the images can be used to set an agreement with your client
Licensing is priced according to the value of the intellectual property 
15:40-18:04 How to compete with photographers who sign away their rights
Educate yourself and others
When you sign your photos away, you give up creative control and the money you could make from licensing those photos elsewhere
18:05-20:17 What other ways can you license your photos?
The “Licensing Mindset”: View every shoot as a way to make money- “I’m taking photographs that companies will pay for; how can I use the work I’m already doing to make more money?”
20:18-22:21 How can I license my photos to other companies?
Find the email address for the company’s marketing department and reach out to them
Craft a good cold pitch email- make it quick and easy to digest
22:22-25:59 Adam’s resources
Adam's website | Resources   
Full course on the licensing mindset
Mini-course on cold pitching
Virtual workshop replays on architectural shoots, editing, portfolio-building, and more
Email templates
26:00-27:48 Licensing can be profitable
The types of homes you shoot will be a factor in how much you make from licensing
Set a goal for how much you want to make from licensing each year
Think about homes you’ve recently shot- were there any logos or new fixtures in the photos?
27:49-30:37 Be transparent
For photographers selling their copyrights, ask what their goals are
There might be a solution that can help you both
We can’t assume our clients understand copyright and licensing; they might be scared, too
Be open with your clients about licensing and how you incorporate it into your business 
30:38-32:47 Contact Adam and us
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media. You can find out more about Spiro at http://spiro.media.

PMRE and Dominic Wilkerson

Dominic Wilkerson of Dom Does Media joins Todd & Craig on the Spiro Podcast to talk about the upcoming PMRE Conference, and how he got into Real Estate Media.  His story is an inspirational one that will encourage you to keep going after your business!
Dominic Wilkerson's Social Outlets:
Instagram: @DomDoesMedia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DominicWilkerson
Website: http://domdoesmedia.com
Facebook: REPuNDERGROUND Group
 
Show Summary:
0:00-2:02 Intro
2:03-3:05 PMRE
3:06-7:26 Introducing Dominic Wilkerson
7:27-13:11 How Dominic has developed a social media presence
Created REP Underground- join by messaging Dominic 
Realized a good conversion rate on Instagram is better than a large following- built 75% of clients from Instagram conversions
Three accounts on TikTok- yelling at traffic, gardening channel, and real estate photography
DomDoesMedia on all platforms | domdoesmedia.com
13:12-20:09 
Targeting- find what hashtags niches are using and then use them in posts and interactions
Be sincere in interactions
Authenticity attracts people
Look at balance of profit and spending and how it helps your lifestyle over your numbers to measure profit
20:10-28:09 Preview of Dominic’s workshop at PMRE
Entry to advanced drone workshop through Drone Launch Academy
Hands-on and interactive
For people who want to grow their business by adding a drone service
Adding a drone service to an appointment increases ASP (average sale price), which is another method for increasing profits besides increasing shoots
Increasing ASP makes it possible to grow by hiring people and make lifestyle changes- moving from an apartment to a house
32:07-34:30 What to expect at PMRE 
Registration the night before
Favorite part is socializing with people who aren’t local competition
Learning how to grow from industry specialists
34:31-35:42 Dominic’s workshop
On Monday of the conference
Sign up at pmreconference.com and click on the workshops tab
A few spots left- sign up today!
35:43-39:51 Drone Launch Academy
Online database of drone classes
Dominic is an instructor for the Academy
Just launched a course geared toward real estate photography
Teaches gear needs, theory of real estate photography and videography, editing, and more
Priced at $400, or the price of one or two invoices
39:52-42:54 Contact Dominic on Instagram, @DomDoesMedia
It takes the right mindset to succeed
Find a group or a mentor
Come find us at PMRE!
Dom's Workshop at PMRE:  https://www.pmreconference.com/workshops/drone-launch-academy
 
Have questions? Email hello@spiro.media or craig@spiro.media. You can find out more about Spiro at spiro.media.